Mendocino County Today: Thursday 10/30/2025

Cloudy | Joy Rupe | Fire Tax | Mo Feedback | Road Ends | COC Unpraised | Flock Data | Flock Camera | Sako Radio | Trailborn Update | Grange Halloween | Before Mendo | Yesterday's Catch | Rosenberg Guilty | Newsom History | Hangman's Blues | Grow Up | Not Football | Anxiety | Armchair General | American Theft | Aloneness | Von Braun | SNAP Benefits | Grass Leaves | Hurricane Melissa | La Belle | Creepy Thiel | Lead Stories | Effect/Cause | Israel Brink | Chronic Rage

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GENERAL HIGH PRESSURE continues over the area creating a dry weather pattern for the remainder of the work week. Warmer than average temperatures are likely for the interior, while there`s also a potential for overnight chilly temperatures in the coldest interior valleys. Chance for rain this weekend and mid next week. (NWS)

STEPHEN DUNLAP (Fort Bragg): A cloudy & warmer 52F this Thursday morning on the coast. Cloudy today then mostly sunny into Monday. Rain returns on Tuesday for a couple days as our unsettled weather continues.

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JOY C. (BARTOLOMEI) RUPE

Joy C. (Bartolomei) Rupe born in Ukiah, California July 18, 1932 passed October 24, 2025.

Born to S. Pete and Rena Bartolomei.

Predeceased by husband David C. Rupe.

Survived by daughters Valarie Grafft, Beryl Milligan, Kathleen Dru Sublet, son David O. Rupe several grandchildren and great grand children.

Joy is mostly remembered by her loved ones and family as an avid hunter and her love of swimming.

Celebration will be held at the home that Joy grew up in at 2300 McClure Road, Ukiah/Talmage, On November 23, 2025, Anytime between 1pm and 5pm.

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ALBION’S PROPOSED FIRE TAX IS TOO HIGH

Dear Editor –

Thanks to Frank Hartzell for his very thoughtful article in the MendocinoCoast.News. I feel he succinctly identified issues and proposed alternatives that nailed the issue.

Last year I was heavily involved in trying to pass the exact same measure that’s on the table now. The measure failed to achieve the two-thirds vote it needed to pass, but by a slim margin. This measure is being presented again as a citizens initiative and if the initiative receives the appropriate amount of public signatures (I believe it’s 125, but don’t quote me), then it will appear on the 2026 ballot and only require a simple majority to pass (50% +1).

As a former staff and board member I feel I have a good understanding of fire department challenges and needs. Segway to this past June, when I walked away from all fire department related activities for personal reasons.

Since leaving, I have had time to reflect on my experiences with the department and now, as a private citizen, find that I really never hear anything about fire department activities, issues or concerns unless I make an active effort to seek this information out. I feel that communication from the department to regular citizens of the community is mainly nonexistent, and now the community is being asked to support a fire tax increase which would raise the current rate by approximately fourfold. If my experience is the same as the rest of the community, it seems unreasonable without some heavy duty justification.

Hindsight is an interesting thing, and I wish I had been more observant of the lack of communication to the public during my time with the department.

While I fully recognize and appreciate the essential services provided by our fire department, I believe this proposed increase is excessive and would impose an unreasonable financial burden on the residents of our community.

Our village, along with the residents of Little River consists largely of working families, retirees, and individuals living on fixed or limited incomes. Many already struggle to manage the rising costs of housing, utilities, and everyday necessities. A tax increase of this magnitude risks placing an untenable strain on those who can least afford it.

I agree with Mr. Hartzell’s suggestions that urge the committee to reconsider the scope of the proposed increase. A more measured approach—such as a phased or moderate adjustment—would allow the department to secure necessary funding without jeopardizing the financial stability of our residents. Additionally, I encourage exploration of alternative funding sources, including premium taxation of vacation rentals, lobbying for county, state or federal assistance, and inter-municipal collaboration, before implementing such a significant tax hike.

Oversight of funds is also key in this tax measure, and I fully agree that including citizens on an oversight committee would be of utmost importance.

We all share the goal of ensuring the safety and readiness of our fire services. However, fiscal responsibility and community affordability must remain central considerations in any decision that affects the entire community.

Wendy Meyer

Albion

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IS SUPERVISOR MULHEREN TOO THIN-SKINNED TO BE IN POLITICS?

by Mark Scaramella

Supervisor Maureen Mulheren (Facebook video, Wednesday, October 29, 2025):

“I have been thinking a lot about the way that elected officials… people try to pigeon hole them into one specific point. The one that I always think of that comes up for me is when I was on the Ukiah city council I was opposed to the Great Redwood Trail. I called it the path to nowhere. I thought it was a giant waste of money. And to be honest, at the time it was. But now seeing the bigger vision and now understanding the idea of it, understanding the importance of outdoor recreation, understanding the importance of outdoor recreation and the importance of active transportation… I have just learned a lot about many topics over the last 10 years. I think that when elected officials get locked into a point and say something like, I will never vote for XYZ, you are doing a disservice to the community. There is so much you have to learn and so many opportunities that might arise that might change the path the project was headed down. So if you are in office, if you are running for office, I would just think that you should keep an open mind. Our job is to not vote on anything or have an opinion until we hear from everybody. Some things get headed down a path to where you’ve already made some decisions headed down the path, but there is always important feedback. A lot of times I hear from certain individuals on social media that target me specifically. You don’t see them on my colleagues’ pages. And at the end of the day, I read all those comments and I’m trying to sort through what’s going to make me a better elected official, what valuable information they might have, how to incorporate their feedback… Despite some of it is just being hateful, and rude and unnecessary, honestly. But that’s part of my job. I see my role… I’ve talked about this in the past. You will find that other elected officials are not using social media in the way that I am. I need your feedback to do my job. I just wish people would be more civil if you have questions instead of accusations all the time. I understand the frustration, especially when you don’t know things. And after 10 years of doing this job, there are still plenty of things that I don’t know. I was trying to think of clever taglines like Policy Over Personality, Education Over Anger. There’s so much that we need to do in order to communicate with each other about what’s happening. I appreciate those of you who kind of hang out in the background and don’t say much but are learning and that you have questions that are not accusatory because I think that’s how we move our community forward. All feedback is valuable, but there’s different ways to present it.”

Funny, Supervisor Mulheren had no trouble voting to suspend her fellow elected official, Auditor-Controller/Treasurer Tax Collector Chamise Cubbison, without hearing any details about why DA Eyster filed dubious charges or what evidence there was, and without giving Ms. Cubbison an opportunity to respond. And she was quite willing to promote a very flawed one-sided tax sharing agreement with the City of Ukiah without hearing from her own department heads that her colleagues are now trying to claw back. (To name just two glaring examples; we could have included the abrupt relocation of the Veterans Service Office before asking the veterans first; or the attempt to personally charge the Sheriff for ordinary budget overruns, or the unworkable Strategic Hiring Process…)

But now, apparently, some anonymous facebook posts related to she no longer believes to be the Great Redwood “Waste of Money” are so “rude” and “unnecessary” that she wants everybody to step back and be more civil and keep an open mind and ask polite questions so she can “educate” us rubes who don’t know things (deplorables?) about how the Great Redwood Boondoggle is not a Boondoggle anymore and have us all crawl back into the background and shut up because, gol-darn it, she’s such a great listener herself and knows so much more than her ignorant critics.

Oh dear, have I been rude? Gosh. Sorry. Nobody made Ms. Mulheren run for office — three times. Nobody made her use facebook to promote herself and her allegedly scrupulous neutrality.

Supervisor Mulheren even goes so far as to recommend that elected officials or even candidates for elected office should not take a position on issues until they have “heard from everybody” — especially from Supervisor Mulheren (which kind of defeats the whole purpose of democratic elections).

If the Second District Supervisor is so bothered by certain (unspecified) facebook comments, she could imitate DA Eyster and simply block comments on her “Mo4Mendo” facebook page and then her not always so friendly facebook friends would be spared her periodic lectures on civility and the importance of active transportation… boondoggles.

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MAZIE MALONE:

Re: Mo Mulheren’s Post – The System vs. Reality

Mo praises the Continuum of Care for all the hard work and heart that goes into helping the homeless. But the truth is people are still on the street, sick, psychotic, hungry, and forgotten. It’s fair to ask whether praise is really warranted when those in the deepest crisis remain untouched.

I watched portions of the recent COC meeting, including the section on the Mobile Crisis Unit. They describe it as 24/7, community-based, and monitored through RCS, where calls are triaged to decide if it’s “safe” for the team to go without police. But when help has to pass through that many filters, the crisis often passes first. We still see people in severe distress with no timely response at all. If Mendocino had adopted something closer to the CAHOOTS model in Oregon, where trained responders meet people’s needs right then and there, the outcomes could look very different.

There’s no doubt the system helps a certain demographic, but it’s the demographic capable of navigating the hoops. The ones who can’t are still out there, visible to anyone driving a ten-mile radius around Ukiah. The system’s response may look collaborative, but if those things were truly working, wouldn’t we be seeing better outcomes, better data, and fewer people suffering on the street?

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BOB ABELES:

There are significant unanswered questions around Flock Safety’s handling of collected data from their ALPR (Automated License Plate Reader) products. It is naive to assume that data collected by these devices and its disposition is under the control of local agencies when it processed and held by Flock Safety on their servers. The ACLU had this to say (emphasis mine):

“We don’t find every use of ALPRs objectionable. For example, we do not generally object to using them to check license plates against lists of stolen cars, for AMBER Alerts, or for toll collection, provided they are deployed and used fairly and subject to proper checks and balances, such as ensuring devices are not disproportionately deployed in low-income communities and communities of color, and that the “hot lists” they are run against are legitimate and up to date. But there’s no reason the technology should be used to create comprehensive records of everybody’s comings and goings — and that is precisely what ALPR databases like Flock’s are doing. In our country, the government should not be tracking us unless it has individualized suspicion that we’re engaged in wrongdoing.”

Additional reading: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachusetts-and-updates

If you’re curious about the locations of Flock ALPRs locally, this website can help: https://www.deflock.me/map#map=5/39.828300/-98.579500

There’s one installed in Boonville adjacent to Pennyroyal on Route 128.

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KMUD SHOW ON GAZA, Thursday, October 30

On Thursday, October 30, at 9 am, Pacific Time (12 noon EST), our guest is Richard Silverstein. We'll talk about Gaza. Is there a truce or not? Why is Israel bombing Gaza again?

Richard Silverstein is the founder of Tikun Olam (Hebrew: תיקון עולם, lit. "repairing the world") a Seattle-based political blog that reports on Israeli national security matters.

He also created the former Israel Palestine Forum, a progressive forum dedicated to discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Silverstein often interviews on Iranian Press TV and has contributed essays to Al Jazeera, The Huffington Post, The Guardian, Haaretz, The Jewish Daily Forward, the Los Angeles Times, Tikkun, Truthout, The American Conservative, Middle East Eye and Al-Araby Al-Jadeed.

Our show, "Heroes and Patriots Radio", airs live on KMUD, on the first and fifth Thursdays of every month, at 9 AM, Pacific Time.

We simulcast our programming on two full power FM stations: KMUE 88.1 in Eureka and KLAI 90.3 in Laytonville. It also maintains a translator at 99.5 FM in Shelter Cove, California.

We also stream live from the web at https://kmud.org/

Speak with guest live and on-the-air at: KMUD Studio (707) 923-3911. Please call in.

We post our shows to our own website and YouTube channels. Shows may be distributed in other media outlets.

Wherever you live, KMUD is your community radio station. We are a true community of informed and progressive people. Please join us by becoming a member or underwriter.

— John Sakowicz

Heroes and Patriots is a program about national security, intelligence operations and foreign policy.

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MENDOCINO HOTEL & HILL HOUSE RENOVATIONS UPDATE AT ROTARY TOWN HALL, NOV 6, NOON

The Mendocino Rotary Club hosts Town Hall with Trailborn on Thursday, November 6th.

Kara Adamson, Regional Director of Sales for Trailborn, will update the community’s of Mendocino and Fort Bragg on the progress of renovations at the former Mendocino Hotel and the Hill House Inn and on future plans for interfacing with our coastal communities.

The meeting will be held at Preston Hall, at 12:00 p.m. on the Mendocino Presbyterian Church Campus. The public is invited to participate in what promises to be an interesting and lively meeting. Beverages and snacks will be provided.

Kara, has extensive experience in the hospitality industry in Northern California and looks forward to participating in the growth of Tourism in our coastal areas.

Tom Wodetzki, [email protected]

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WHO WERE YOU BEFORE MENDO

I mean way before
You’d even heard of Mendo
Who’d you think you were

Were you anyone
You still feel you are today
Or just passing through

C’mon now really
Try your best to remember
Who you think you were

Were you any who
All that shuffled time it took
Took you to get here

Deep down don’t you know
You were Mendo already
And no other where

Always been Mendo
You’ve never not been Mendo
Let that dawn on you

— Jim Luther

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CATCH OF THE DAY, Wednesday, October 29, 2025

JAMES CLAUSEN, 55, Ukiah. Probation revocation.

KATHLEEN DUNAWAY, Sonoma/Ukiah. Providing false insurance information for payment.

DOMINIC FABER, 63, Ukiah. Paraphernalia, parole violation.

WILLIAM FITZSIMMONS, 70, Pioneer/Ukiah. DUI causing bodily injury.

JOSE LOPEZ-FLORES, 22, Ukiah. DUI with blood-alcohol over 0.15%, suspended license for DUI, contempt of court.

RICHARD LORMER, 56, Sonoma/Ukiah. County parole violation.

LALUNA MARTIN, 30, Point Arena. DUI-any drug, addict driving vehicle, probation revocation.

RAFAEL RAMIREZ-HERNANDEZ, 38, Petaluma. Petty theft with two or more priors.

AARON STILL, 44, Ukiah. Evidence concealment/destruction, failure to appear, probation revocation.

PALOMO VALDEZ-CEJA, 30, Ukiah. DUI.

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ANIMAL ACTIVIST ZOE ROSENBERG FOUND GUILTY in Sonoma County ‘chicken rescue’ case tied to Petaluma Poultry

by Colin Atagi

After nearly a month of testimony and arguments, a Sonoma County jury on Wednesday found Berkeley animal activist Zoe Rosenberg guilty of conspiracy and misdemeanor charges stemming from her role in a 2023 incursion at Petaluma Poultry — a case that became the latest flashpoint in the region’s simmering conflict between animal rights advocates and the agricultural industry.

Jurors reached their verdict after about three and a half hours of deliberation, convicting Rosenberg, 23, on all counts. She stood quietly as the verdict was read. Beside her stood her attorney, Chris Carraway, who placed his hand on her back for comfort.

About 20 members of Direct Action Everywhere, or DxE, the Bay Area-based animal rights group Rosenberg is part of, were in attendance. They were silent, though at least two appeared to wipe away tears.

Outside the courthouse, DxE members waited and approached at least one juror for comment. Two jurors were escorted out of the building by security — a service typically provided following trials.

She faces up to five years in jail when she returns for sentencing Dec. 3, though probation is possible. She remains free on bail while awaiting sentencing but must wear an ankle monitor, stay away from six animal activists identified by the court, and remain at least 500 yards from any bird, duck, meat, dairy or egg farm. Judge Kenneth Gnoss said he imposed the restrictions because of concerns over Rosenberg’s prior acts of civil disobedience.

The verdict marks a major victory for prosecutors and a setback for DxE, known for high-profile demonstrations and “open rescues” in which members remove livestock from farms they accuse of cruelty. The group has drawn national attention — and frequent backlash — for its confrontational tactics.

“This verdict affirms that no one is above the law,” District Attorney Carla Rodriguez said in a statement to The Press Democrat. “While we respect everyone’s right to free expression, it is unlawful to trespass, disrupt legitimate businesses, and endanger workers and animals in pursuit of a political or social agenda.”

The Case Against Her

Rosenberg was charged with one felony conspiracy count and three misdemeanors connected to two early-morning trespasses at Petaluma Poultry in spring 2023. Prosecutors alleged she and fellow activists entered company property, searched files and attached GPS trackers to vehicles before taking four chickens from a trailer June 13, 2023, as supporters rallied nearby.

Rosenberg admitted removing the birds — later named Poppy, Ivy, Aster and Azalea — but insisted the act was a “rescue,” not theft. Her attorneys argued she acted out of moral duty to save animals she believed were suffering, citing video evidence DxE later shared online.

Prosecutors countered that the operation was planned, deliberate and designed for publicity. Deputy District Attorney Matthew Hobson told jurors Rosenberg’s actions were a stunt, pointing to social media footage and DxE promotional videos.

Surveillance footage, investigator statements and timing linked to Rosenberg’s birthday and DxE’s annual Animal Liberation Conference formed the backbone of the prosecution’s argument that the incursion was deliberate.

Judge Gnoss barred Rosenberg’s legal team from using a “necessity defense,” which would have allowed them to argue she acted to prevent greater harm. Without that tool, defense attorney Carraway instead sought to cast Rosenberg as a passionate advocate driven by conscience, not criminal intent.

The Trial

During testimony, Rosenberg detailed her background as an animal rights activist and founder of a sanctuary in San Luis Obispo, describing how her childhood experience raising chickens shaped her beliefs. She attends UC Berkeley but paused her studies during the trial.

Court proceedings stretched through most of October, occasionally delayed by evidentiary disputes, limited afternoon sessions and Rosenberg’s health challenges. Prosecutors began questioning her on a Friday and continued into Monday before proceedings ended early Oct. 21, when she became ill. She missed court the following day.

According to her social media posts, Rosenberg has gastroparesis — a paralyzed stomach that prevents food from moving normally. She receives nutrients through a feeding tube that delivers sustenance directly to her intestine. Rosenberg said she was hospitalized last month before pretrial motions began. Little was said of her condition during the trial.

The prosecution rested after four days, while the defense’s case took twice as long. At least two DxE members who had been called as potential witnesses invoked their Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination.

Among the defense witnesses was Carla Cabral, who testified that Rosenberg had given her the rescued chickens and that they appeared in poor health. On cross-examination, Cabral acknowledged she was also a DxE member and vegan advocate.

Rosenberg’s co-defendant, Raven Deerbrook, reached a plea deal earlier this year and testified that she initially investigated Petaluma Poultry on her own before Rosenberg joined her in May 2023.

Prosecutors also referenced Rosenberg’s past activism — including a 2022 incident where she chained herself to a basketball hoop during an NBA game — as evidence of a pattern of disruptive tactics intended to attract media attention.

In his closing arguments Tuesday, Hobson said the defense offered little evidence to support Rosenberg’s claim that the four chickens were in poor condition. He argued Rosenberg had relied largely on information from individuals who shared her views and goals, noting she received legal guidance from Bonnie Klapper, a former federal prosecutor who has served as legal counsel for DxE.

Several jurors described their decision Wednesday as straightforward.

“It was pretty cut and dry,” said one juror, who declined to give his name. “We read through and discussed (the charges) and we all seemed to be in agreement with the verdict.”

Another juror, who identified himself as Juror 6692, called it “an easy decision.” He said the panel voted on each count and the results were unanimous.

“Everyone was the same,” he said.

The Larger Context

DxE members have faced similar criminal cases across the country, with mixed results. In October 2022, two activists were acquitted of burglary and theft after removing two piglets from a Utah pork producer’s farm. That was followed in March 2023 in Merced County, where two members were found not guilty of misdemeanor theft after taking two chickens from a Foster Farms facility.

Rosenberg’s arrest in November 2023 came after DxE co-founder Wayne Hsiung was sentenced to 90 days in jail and two years’ probation in a similar Sonoma County case. Since then, the group’s presence has expanded, staging demonstrations outside Trader Joe’s, blocking delivery trucks, and backing a 2024 ballot measure to restrict large-scale poultry and livestock operations — a proposal voters overwhelmingly rejected.

The group even sponsored a billboard along Highway 101 in Petaluma, asking whether Rosenberg should go to prison for “rescuing” a chicken. Prosecutors unsuccessfully tried to have it removed, arguing it could influence jurors.

During the trial, dueling press releases from DxE and the Sonoma County Farm Bureau reflected the polarized atmosphere surrounding the case.

What’s next

Rosenberg’s conviction marks a significant blow for Direct Action Everywhere, which has long described its actions as moral interventions in the face of systemic animal cruelty. Prosecutors said the verdict reaffirmed that activists cannot take the law into their own hands.

Leaders in Sonoma County’s agricultural community praised the outcome. Herb Frerichs, general counsel for Petaluma Poultry, said it showed that “personal beliefs don’t justify breaking the law,” while Dayna Ghirardelli, executive director of the Sonoma County Farm Bureau, said the decision underscored public rejection of DxE’s tactics and support for local farmers.

District Attorney Rodriguez said her office will continue to prosecute activists who blur the line between protest and crime, arguing that some groups “have attempted to use the criminal justice system as a platform to gain attention and further their movement.”

Dayna Ghirardelli, executive director of the Sonoma County Farm Bureau, said the outcome underscores the community’s rejection of DxE’s tactics, saying farm families “have consistently rejected their extreme tactics” and that the verdict “reinforces that.”

Carraway, Rosenberg’s attorney, called the prosecution a misuse of resources. He said the county “spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to protect a multi-billion-dollar corporation from the rescue of four chickens worth less than $25.”

After the verdict, Rosenberg said she had no regrets.

“I will not apologize for taking sick, neglected animals to get medical care,” she said. “Because I did, Poppy, Ivy, Aster and Azalea are alive today. For that, I will never be sorry.”

Carraway said Rosenberg plans to appeal, arguing the court erred by barring a necessity defense and limiting evidence of animal cruelty.

(Santa Rosa Press Democrat)

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Mark Scaramella notes: Of course Ms. Rosenberg was “guilty.” But a felony? Come on. The accusation that Ms. Rosenberg is some kind of zealous criminal activist is rich coming from the Sonoma County DA who blurted the extremely nutty and completely inapt cliche, “No one is above the law.” That’s felony dumb in and of itself which should disqualify her as DA. We can think of plenty of people in Sonoma County who are “above the law,” including some large corporate wine operators who have never been charged with their numerous environmental crimes, much less convicted of felonies. Ms. Rosenberg was not claiming to be “above the law,” she was trying to draw attention to the conditions at the factory chicken farm by breaking the law. California is heavily against animal cruelty at such factory farming operations as evidenced by the overwhelming passage of Proposition 12, the “Prevention of Cruelty to Farm Animals Act” in 2018 which added restrictions to and closed loopholes in an earlier similar 2008 ballot proposition that applies to pregnant pigs, veal calves and egg-laying chickens, but not to chickens being raised for meat. Obviously, the voting public would rather that their meat chickens be spared the worst aspects of factory farming such as “live shackle slaughter” (liveshackleslaughter.com) and “forced molting” (prohibited in Europe) and boiling alive, if given the opportunity to vote on it.

https://thehumaneleague.org/article/factory-farmed-chickens

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THE REAL STORY BEHIND GAVIN NEWSOM’S ‘WONDER BREAD AND MAC AND CHEESE’ MOMENT

by Aidin Vaziri

California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s story about “hustling” through a childhood of Wonder Bread and mac and cheese set off a social-media storm over the weekend.

Conservative commentators derided him as a privileged poseur. But the full context of his remarks — made on the basketball podcast All The Smoke — paints a more layered picture of the governor’s early years, his mentors and his view of California’s challenges today.

In the viral clip, Newsom recalled his mother, Tessa, “worked hard, grinding every single day … two, two and a half jobs,” while raising him and his sister after a divorce.

“It was also about paying the bills, man,” he said. “It was just, like, hustling. And so I was out there kind of raising myself.”

Then came the line that launched a thousand tweets: “Sitting there with the Wonder Bread … macaroni and cheese.”

The hosts, former NBA players Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, burst into laughter.

“Are you talking about me?” Jackson teased.

Critics pounced, noting that Newsom’s father, William, was a lawyer and later a state appeals court judge with close ties to the billionaire Getty family.

But the full interview, and his long-documented biography, support both halves of his story — a mother who worked multiple jobs to make rent and a father whose wealth and connections reentered the picture later in Newsom’s life.

In the podcast, Newsom himself nods to that evolution.

“In high school, I look up in the stands — my dad’s back up there,” he said. “He was bringing his friends. It just saved me … and it got me into college baseball.”

Newsom has often described his upbringing as one of contrasts — “94123 to 94124,” as he put it, referencing San Francisco ZIP codes that divide privilege from poverty, from the Marina District to the Bayview-Hunters Point neighborhood.

His dyslexia, he said, left him struggling in class until sports gave him structure and confidence.

“I couldn’t really read or write,” Newsom said during the podcast. “We had roommates all the time because (my mom) couldn’t afford the rent … and we rented out the garage for 50 bucks a month so someone could store their car.”

That mix of hardship and opportunity shaped his self-image — one that his critics now caricature. But it also highlights the themes Newsom returned to throughout the nearly two-hour podcast: class divides, race, community and California’s own contradictions.

When the conversation turned to crime in Oakland, Newsom recalled tense community meetings during a wave of violence in 2023.

“One of the bishops goes, ‘After listening to everybody else, I just have two words,’” Newsom said. “‘Smith and Wesson.’”

That moment, he said, prompted him to send California Highway Patrol officers into the city to support local police — an intervention he credits with helping bring down homicide rates.

“It was about restoring a sense of well-being,” he said. “You’ve got to meet the community where they are.”

He also lamented Oakland’s economic losses — its professional sports teams, its spirit.

“You can’t legislate pride,” Newsom said. “That’s what’s been missing for too long in Oakland. We’ve got to restore that.”

Newsom’s political career, he reminded the hosts, began not in elite circles but with a phone call from then–San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown.

“I was 25, running a little business, complaining in the newspaper about the mayor,” he said. “Next thing I know, I’m appointed to the Parking and Traffic Commission — and he made me chair. I didn’t even know what ‘chair’ meant.”

Brown became a mentor and ally for decades.

“He plucked me out,” Newsom said. “He taught me: You’re not here to make a point, you’re here to make a difference.”

The podcast, taped Oct. 25, roamed far beyond personal history.

Newsom spoke about policing, immigration, education and a nation he said he fears is “putting America in reverse.”

He cited a new California law he signed last month banning masked federal agents after reports of ICE officers “jumping out of unmarked cars” in immigrant communities. It goes into effect in January.

“I read the Bill of Rights,” he said. “The president was asked about habeas corpus the other day. He said, ‘Who’s habeas?’ This is America in 2025.”

He defended his increasingly combative use of social media — where he’s gained millions of followers — as a response to what he called “Democratic weakness masquerading as politeness.”

And he credited sports for giving him the resilience that politics demands.

“Sports saved me,” he said. “They gave me confidence, discipline and a sense of team.”

If the “Wonder Bread” dust-up showed anything, it was the speed at which a stray anecdote can eclipse the substance around it.

The full interview touched on many of California’s most pressing issues — from rising inequality to public safety and immigration — with Newsom defending his record and explaining how his personal experiences shaped his approach to governing.

“I had a mom who worked her tail off,” he said. “I had a dad who came back into my life later. I had mentors like Willie Brown who gave me a shot. I’m not pretending to be something I’m not.”

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HANGMAN’S BLUES

Hangman's rope, it sure is tough and strong.
I say, hangman's rope, it's sure tough and strong.
They're gonna hang me because I did something wrong.

I wanna tell you the gallows, honey's a fearful sight.
I wanna say the gallows, sure is fearsome sight.
Hang me down in the mornin', cut me down at night.

Mean old hangman, he's waitin' to tighten up that noose.
I said, a mean old hangman, he's waitin' to tighten up that noose.
Lord, I'm so scared, I'm tremblin' in my shoes.

Jurymen heard my case and said my hand was red.
Jury's heard my case and they said my hand was red.
And the judge sentenced for me to hang until I'm dead.

Crowd around the courthouse, for the time is drawin' fast.
Crowd around the courthouse, for the time is drawin' fast.
Sayin', a good-for-nothin' killer is gonna breathe his last.

I'm almost dyin', I was gaspin' for my breath,
Mama, I'm almost dyin', gaspin' for my breath,
And that triflin' woman is drinkin' to celebrate my death.

— Blind Lemon Jefferson (1928)

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ON-LINE COMMENT OF THE DAY

The great thing about America is that we're free to look at ourselves honestly, warts and all, and hold ourselves accountable for mistakes we make. We ARE the country, remember? We don't have to fear being thrown in jail for criticizing our leaders, although that is changing. And not because of the Democrats, whom I haven't voted for in years. I don't see any reason to think we're stuck with two choices and pick and then fully embrace the lesser of evils. Better, I think, to hold all our politicians to account regardless of their party. The current president's flaws are so obvious that the only excuse for not admitting them is that like a good football team you don't want to air your dirty linen in public. We're not a football team, though. We're a country. A free country for now.

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ANXIETY

The hoar-frost crumbles in the sun,
The crisping steam of a train
Melts in the air, while two black birds
Sweep past the window again.

Along the vacant road, a red
Bicycle approaches; I wait
In a thaw of anxiety, for the boy
To leap down at our gate.

He has passed us by; but is it
Relief that starts in my breast?
Or a deeper bruise of knowing that still
She has no rest.

— David Herbert Lawrence (1927)

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ARMCHAIR GENERAL was an illustration by Norman Rockwell for the cover of the Saturday Evening Post of April 29, 1944.

The man is listening to the radio for any news about WWII. On the top right are three blue stars with three photographs, telling us that the man has three sons who are currently deployed. It’s April 29, and the American flag on the map is planted in England, and it is still more than a month before D-Day (June 6), when France would be invaded by the Americans and their allies. On the wall behind him are images of Generals MacArthur and Eisenhower, and the father here may identify well with them, carefully tracking any developments of the war.

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JONATHAN CUTTING:

Never read Howard Zinn. And I like many of the things America has dreamt up. Good stuff. But ever since WWII ended, the oligarchy that stands behind it all and calls the shots on foreign policy, has killed millions, destroyed and sanctioned the lives of multitudes of millions, engendered wars and set up puppet regimes run by ruthless dictators, etc. This is all a matter of record. And it's still going on. Trump is more open about it than any of our leadership elite ever was. He openly talks of turning the Gaza strip into the "Riviera of the Middle East" and his son-in-law, who doesn't even hold a position in the administration, is openly involved in investing and planning for this theft of Palestinian lands. Which is what this country has come to mean in the minds of many in the world today: theft of resources and destruction of life and society. So, go on ahead and sing the praises of all American society has created. It pretty much falls flat when you realize we don't export anything much beyond bombs, death, destruction and theft of resources. Sad. Watch a few John Pilger documentaries and then come back to sing the praises of America.

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“IT'S NO GOOD trying to get rid of your own aloneness. You've got to stick to it all your life. Only at times, at times, the gap will be filled in. At times! But you have to wait for the times. Accept your own aloneness and stick to it, all your life. And then accept the times when the gap is filled in, when they come. But they've got to come. You can't force them. … Be still when you have nothing to say; when genuine passion moves you, say what you've got to say, and say it hot.”

— D.H. Lawrence

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$149.57 IS GOING TO HAVE TO FEED MY FAMILY INDEFINITELY

by Elizabeth Austin

Every Saturday morning at the Wrightstown Farmers Market in Bucks County, Pa., I approach the information tent with my floral-patterned SNAP benefits card in hand. I swipe my card, enter my PIN, and thanks to a donor-funded program, my $60 in SNAP benefits becomes about $80 in purchasing power.

Within minutes, I’m walking away with thick card stock Market Bucks for purchasing locally grown Kirby cucumbers, fresh sourdough bread and pints of yogurt made from the milk of grass-fed cows — foods that would normally strain my monthly grocery budget.

Barring an end to the government shutdown, SNAP benefits will not be paid out in November, leaving tens of millions of recipients wondering how they’re going to afford food next month. My own remaining SNAP balance — $149.57 — was supposed to help carry my family until Nov. 9. Now, it will have to stretch indefinitely.

My relationship with SNAP — short for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, also known as food stamps — started more than a decade ago, and illustrates the complex realities of food assistance that policy debates often miss. In 2012, I was the mother of two children under 3 years old. That year, their father disappeared from our lives without warning, leaving me with no way to feed them or myself. To survive, I applied for SNAP.

Doing so required that I prove my poverty in triplicate to an exhausted, overwhelmed case worker, but, eventually, we were granted $383 a month to spend on food. Each time I pulled my benefits card out of my wallet at the grocery store checkout, it was as if a blanket of shame lay over my shoulders; I worried the cashier and the other customers were judging me for needing help.

I stretched those dollars as far as they would go, but this barely covered boxes of generic pasta and sauce, bulk rice, day-old breads and pastries, and bags of bruised or wilting produce marked down for quick sale. I was keeping my children fed, but not in the healthful way I desired.

My farmers market didn’t accept SNAP then. Still, I loved going every Saturday morning, sometimes managing to save $20 from other parts of my budget for food I couldn’t easily find at the grocery store: ramps, Jimmy Nardello peppers, crusty domes of sourdough bread.

The market soon became more than shopping for us. My children would stop by the butterfly tent pop-ups from the nearby nature center or the craft table to paint rocks into strawberries. For our small family navigating a difficult transition, that Saturday morning ritual became a way to connect with other people during a time when we needed that sense of belonging.

After I landed a full-time job at a medical technology company, my salary disqualified me from SNAP benefits — but only just. I continued setting aside money for the farmers market each week and I built relationships with farmers who watched my children grow into teenagers.

At the end of 2023, after my daughter had survived a nearly three-year fight with cancer, I lost my job. I applied for SNAP benefits again. By then, my farmers market had invested in an electronic system, and I’ve been able to use my benefits to continue shopping there. Unable to find another full-time position in a punishing job market, I’ve stayed on SNAP while freelancing, which lifts the enormous stress of reliably feeding my family during an uncertain time.

Conversations around SNAP benefits are often fraught, dominated by the simplistic refrain that recipients should “get a job.” My experience illustrates why this response misses the mark. It took me time to find a job when I first needed SNAP, when I was raising two small children alone. I had that job when the challenges of working through my daughter’s cancer diagnosis ultimately cost me my position. I have a job now as a freelancer, building my career back one contract at a time.

But our government is making the tired “get a job” refrain into policy. The One Big Beautiful Bill Act included an estimated $186 billion cut to SNAP benefits through 2034, which could drastically reduce or eliminate monthly benefits for millions. These expected cuts, now compounded by a government shutdown holding food assistance hostage, will devastate families. And for what? Political brinkmanship that treats the most basic human need as a negotiating chip.

Some Americans seem to believe that they should be able to dictate the food choices of families that need food assistance. I’ve often heard expressions of surprise from other customers while I was spending my Market Bucks. Last summer, a man watched me exchange $10 in Market Bucks for a half peck of peaches. “What’s that? How do I get some of those?” he asked. When I explained the SNAP exchange program, his face twisted in shock. “You’re using food stamps at the farmers market?”

I thought, briefly, of hurling one of the stall’s heirloom tomatoes at his head. SNAP recipients face an impossible bind: When our shopping carts contain ultraprocessed foods, we’re accused of wasting taxpayer money on junk. When we choose to purchase healthier foods — the very foods nutrition experts and public health officials tell us we should be eating — we’re accused of living too well and of not really needing help.

I do plenty of my shopping at Aldi, Trader Joe’s and Costco, where I buy pantry staples and purchase in bulk. I’m fanatical about meal planning and eliminating food waste. When I shop at the farmers market, I track sales and use every extra scrap; a single chicken can feed my family for at least four dinners, from a whole roasted bird to chicken salad to stock for soup. Around me, a dozen eggs run $3.50 to $7 at grocery stores, and $5 at a farm stand. Even when I’m paying slightly more for an item, I’m compensating in other areas to make it work.

The real issue isn’t how SNAP recipients manage their grocery budget; it’s how this country views people who receive government support. If no food choice is acceptable — if both the Pop-Tarts and the organic butter are cause for judgment — then the problem isn’t SNAP recipients’ shopping decisions.

Why shouldn’t SNAP recipients be able to shop at a farmers market? The implicit assumption is that government assistance should come with restrictions not just on how much you can spend, but on the quality of what you’re allowed to eat, as if the luxury of fresh, locally grown peaches is something that only the wealthy deserve. I aim to one day not need SNAP benefits, but while I do, I’m grateful for them. For families like mine, the stakes are clear: The question is not only whether fresh, local food can be accessible, but whether political will exists to maintain programs making any food assistance available at all. Right now, with my remaining $149.57 and no idea when the next payment will arrive, the answer feels painfully uncertain.

(Elizabeth Austin is working on a memoir about being a bad cancer mom.)

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HURRICANE MELISSA MAXED OUT WHAT SCIENTISTS THOUGHT WAS POSSIBLE

Before Hurricane Melissa, the most damaging hurricane to hit Jamaica was Gilbert, which struck the island in September 1988. Gilbert was a Category 4 hurricane when it made landfall and caused tremendous damage from intense winds, storm surge and flooding. Tens of thousands were left homeless, and 49 people were killed.

At the time, I was working as a meteorology intern at a television station in St. Louis. I got most of my information about the storm from John Hope, a former National Hurricane Center forecaster who was the Weather Channel’s first hurricane expert (and one of its first meteorological stars). Back then, global warming was just beginning to become a focus of people who studied the atmosphere and the weather.

Forty years later, when I look at satellite imagery and other data on hurricanes and extreme weather, I often cannot believe my eyes. Most of these mind-boggling events have a potential link to climate change.

For Hurricane Melissa, the moment of disbelief came in stages. The first was the satellite images of the storm’s incredibly clear and warm eye in the center of a swirling mass of intense thunderstorms. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s automated satellite algorithm that estimates the intensity of tropical storms and hurricanes had essentially maxed out, reaching values seen on rare occasions in the Pacific Ocean, but never in the Atlantic.

By the time Melissa made landfall midday on Tuesday along the southwest coast of Jamaica, the storm was the most intense hurricane I have seen make landfall in my decades of watching the Atlantic tropics. (Hurricane experts say it was one of the three most intense hurricanes to hit land on record, stronger even than Katrina.)

Intense hurricanes need very warm ocean water for fuel, but they also tend to churn up colder ocean water from below, a process known as upwelling. Typically, very slow-moving, powerful hurricanes like Melissa will upwell so much chilly water that there won’t be enough warm water to maintain intensity. In this case, though, the water south of Jamaica was not only unusually warm — about 2.5 degrees Fahrenheit above normal — it was also abnormally warm to a great depth, which meant Melissa continued to intensify as it reached land, despite moving slowly.

It is not hyperbole to say that western Jamaica experienced something near to the worst tropical cyclone impacts our planet can produce.

Time and research will determine if climate change will significantly increase the frequency and intensity of hurricanes such as Melissa. But the connection between global warming and increased sea surface temperatures is already well established. We also know that more frequent and impactful weather-related disasters are occurring because more human beings are in harm’s way.

According to Federal Reserve and World Bank records, the population of Jamaica has grown by more than 20 percent in the years since Gilbert hit the country, now totaling more than 2.8 million. I have little doubt that climate change is contributing to more significant meteorological events, and in what’s known as the expanding bull’s-eye effect, more people in harm’s way contribute to enormous disasters.

While it will likely be many days before we know the extent of the devastation caused by Melissa, it is probable that areas around the path of the eye will prove to have incurred greater damage than the areas worst hit by Gilbert. Melissa has caused at least four deaths in Jamaica and more than 20 in Haiti. Cuba is also reeling from life-threatening storm surge, wind damage and flooding after Melissa made landfall there as a Category 3 storm.

Melissa is our planet’s latest warning that we must keep improving how we forecast these events and how we prepare people to recover from them. As someone who worked for our federal government for 35 years, I am also keenly aware of how our own national capabilities in forecasting and disaster response have eroded in recent months.

Natural hazards are huge threats not only to human life but also to national economies. Investing in our ability to prepare, forecast, warn about and respond to these threats can save lives and improve livelihoods.

Hurricane Melissa should prompt a collective moment of disbelief that should make America — and indeed, the world — redouble its efforts to keep people safe and prepare for the future.

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PETER THIEL is one of the creepiest people alive. A notoriously nasty and vindictive billionaire, Thiel is a leading architect of the modern imperial surveillance state. His CIA-backed company Palantir has intimate ties to both the US intelligence cartel and to Israel, playing a crucial role in both the US empire’s sprawling surveillance network and Israeli atrocities against Palestinians. The Trump administration has alarmed even the mildest empire critics with its efforts to bring the nation much further under Palantir’s information monitoring umbrella.

There was a very informative moment last year when Thiel was asked by Piers Morgan whether he agreed with the large sector of the public who viewed the shooter of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson as a hero.

Thiel paused for a long time, and then stuttered for a long time, and then eventually got out the words, “It’s, I don’t know what, what to say? I, I think I still think you have, you should try to make an argument. And I, I think this is, this is you should, you know, there may be things wrong with our health care system, but you have, you have to make an argument, and you have to try to find a way to convince people and and change, change it by by that, and this is, you know, this is not going to work.”

They know. The plutocrats are acutely aware that we can get rid of them whenever we want and end the system which empowers them. They think about it a whole lot more than most of us do. It’s never too far from their thoughts. They know there are a lot more of us than there are of them, and that their abuse ends whenever we decide we’ve had enough.

— Caitlin Johnstone

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LEAD STORIES, THURSDAY'S NYT

Trump Threatens to Resume Nuclear Weapons Testing, Minutes Before Xi Meeting

Trump Says China Will Ease Limits on Rare Earths

Nvidia Is Now Worth $5 Trillion as It Consolidates Power in A.I. Boom 

Prosecutors Who Called Jan. 6 Attackers a ‘Mob of Rioters’ Are Punished

Toll Rises as Hurricane Melissa Begins Passing Through the Bahamas

Why Did My Favorite Candy Bar Drop ‘Milk Chocolate’ From the Label?

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‘IS ISRAEL 'ON THE BRINK?' (w/ Ilan Pappé)

In spite of Israel’s military dominance over its regional foes, is the Zionist entity actually at its most vulnerable point in history? And more importantly — can it sustain the Jewish state project?

by Chris Hedges

Despite the demoralization and destruction produced by Israel’s two-year-long genocidal campaign on the Palestinians, Israel potentially finds itself at its weakest point in its short history.

In his new book, Israel on the Brink, renowned Israeli historian Ilan Pappé makes the case that Israel’s current path forward is unsustainable. With a combination of domestic, political, military and international pressures, Israel will continue to destabilize.

Pappé writes, “A potential fall of Israel could either be like the end of South Vietnam, the total erasure of a state, or like South Africa, the fall of a particular ideological regime and its replacement by another. I believe that in the case of Israel, elements of both scenarios will unfold sooner than many of us can comprehend or prepare for.”

Hedges and Pappé chronicle the path Israel has taken to reach this point, one of radical religious fanaticism manifesting itself in figures such as Benjamin Netanyahu and Itamar Ben-Gvir at the highest positions in government, and what the future looks like for them as well as the devastated Palestinian population.

Transcript

Chris Hedges

The Israeli historian Ilan Pappé argues that Israel is imploding. He defines the current far-right government of Benjamin Netanyahu as neo-Zionist, meaning that the old values of Zionism have become more extreme, more openly racist, more supremacist and more violent. This neo-Zionist state has abandoned the incremental approach, the slow-motion ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, which characterized past Zionist governments.

It is using genocide as a weapon to empty the Gaza Strip of Palestinians and soon perhaps the West Bank. It is dominated by Jewish extremists that have turned Israel into what he calls the State of Judea, distinct from the old state of Israel. The state of Judea, run by fanatic Jewish colonists, 750,000 of whom live in the West Bank, fuses religious Zionism with Orthodox Judaism. It seeks to establish an Israeli empire that will dominate its Arab neighbors, especially Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.

The hatred for Palestinians by those who run this neo-Zionist state, the state of Judea, extends towards secular Israeli Jews. This, he argues, means that ultimately Israel will fracture, making Israel unsustainable. At the same time, as the American empire unravels, a process accelerated by the ineptitude and corruption of the Trump administration, Israel’s fundamental pillar of support will erode, forcing retrenchment by the United States, including in the Middle East.

What will the collapse of Israel mean for Israelis, Palestinians and the Middle East? Will it usher in a process of decolonization? Or will it foster even more violence, bloodletting and extremism? Will it be possible to replace Israel with a secular state, one where Palestinians have equal rights with Israelis, a country of one person, one vote? Or will Israel atrophy into a despotic theocracy, with its educated secular elite fleeing the country and its economy disintegrating under the onslaught?

Joining me to discuss the future of Israel, and his new book Israel on the Brink, is Ilan Pappé, professor of history at the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the UK and director of the university’s European Center for Palestine Studies. His other books include The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, Ten Myths About Israel and A History of Modern Palestine. Let’s begin with the latest news out of Qatar, this attempted assassination of the leaders of Hamas who were apparently gathering to discuss and by all reports accept the latest ceasefire agreement.

Ilan Pappé

Yeah, Chris, thank you for having me once more on your show. It’s a great pleasure and honor to be here. I think that those of us who follow closely Benjamin Netanyahu’s policy towards the negotiations with Hamas or towards the idea of finding an exit out of the present war in Gaza, were not surprised by the attack.

In the previous cases where there was a chance for a deal, Netanyahu found non-military, if you want, ways of making this impossible. This time, because of the American involvement, it was clear that Hamas was going a very long way towards meeting the Israeli demands and therefore a deal was possible and the only way to do it was by this provocative attack on the Hamas negotiating team.

It’s not even the Hamas leadership. He attacked the negotiating team hoping that this would lead to a situation where negotiations would be a non-starter. Both the attack itself failed and also the Hamas position has not changed. They’re still willing to negotiate a deal. I think that’s one dimension of that attack.

The other dimension is what you referred to in your introductory remarks. This is the DNA of the present Israeli government, the sense that they are the rulers of the Middle East, that they are the dominant power. And it’s good every now and then to show every part of the Middle East that they have the power and the ability to do whatever they want regardless of international law or the sovereignty of Arab countries.

It is really a sense that they have that the Arab world, or at least the regimes of the Arab world, are totally at their mercy and under their submission. And I think that these were the twin objectives of this attack — one was tactical about the negotiations, but the other one was part of this hubris sense that they are now really the power in the area, which fits very well with this neo-Zionist messianic vision of reconstructing the ancient kingdom of Israel that they have read about in the Old Testament, in the Bible, thinking that they are now being able to rebuild it with the same kind of power and influence.

Chris Hedges

And just the reaction of the Trump administration, it’s hard to know what’s true. Trump lies like he breathes but he claims, of course, that he didn’t learn about it until the US military told him about it.

The warning that supposedly was delivered to Qatar, according to Qataris, began ten minutes after the bombing began. There’s the largest US airbase in the Middle East in Qatar, they certainly would have been able to read through radar systems, the approach of Israeli warplanes. How do you read the US response and the effect on the United States of this strike?

Ilan Pappé

I think this is a way of trying to cover up for what really happened. After all, it’s not only that you have the biggest American base in the Middle East, in Qatar, you have the high command of the whole region, the American high command of the whole region in Qatar. The Israeli air force would have not sent one aeroplane to that airspace without at least informing that headquarter in Qatar.

So I think that the Americans knew that this was coming. I think Trump begins to understand that Netanyahu believes that sometimes established facts are good enough in order to make sure that Trump, even if he’s not entirely happy with an action, will go along with it after it had occurred. And therefore, I do think that the Americans knew about it.

They decided not to stop it by any powerful or forceful means and hoped and they still probably believe at this moment that they have succeeded in somehow glossing over this incident as they would call it and maintain their good relationship both with Israel and Qatar.

At one point this kind of adventurous policy would not be that easy to reconcile for the Americans. It works so far because of the weakness of the Arab governments, the lack of self-respect and dignity. But they might find one day that this is even too much for them. And then this whole American game of navigating or balancing between the two different interests of the United States in the region, this balancing act may not be possible anymore in the future.

Chris Hedges

At a dinner in Cairo a few months ago with Nasser’s former head of the Minister of Information who [former President of Egypt Anwar El-]Sadat had thrown in prison for 10 years and he made for me exactly that point. He said the problem is not that Israel is strong, it’s that the Arab governments are weak.

Ilan Pappé

Absolutely, absolutely. It’s something, you know, whatever we may think about [former President of Egypt] Gamal Abdel Nasser, previous leaders of the Ba’ath in Syria and Iraq, they would have not tolerated such an Israeli behavior. There’s no doubt about it, with all the risk of saying what would have happened if in history this can be certain, with some certainty be stated.

Chris Hedges

So let’s talk about the state of Judea, what that means, and how that is distinct from the state of Israel.

Ilan Pappé

Yeah, the state of Judea is the kind of political structure that began to emerge in the Jewish settlements, colonies in the West Bank after the June ’67 war. And at first, this was…

Chris Hedges

Let me just interrupt for people that is when Israel occupied Gaza and the West Bank including East Jerusalem.

Ilan Pappé

And the West Bank, absolutely. Yeah, what we call the Six-Day War and Israel occupied the West Bank and the Gaza Strip alongside the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. And within the West Bank, which a group of right-wing Israeli ideologues and political groups regarded as the ancient land of Israel, a certain ideological infrastructure was developed.

At first, it was very marginal. It had very little impact on Israeli politics. But once the Likud, under Menachem Begin in 1977, ended the Labor Zionist domination or dominance in Israeli and Zionist politics, these ideologues became far more influential and began to develop through learning centers, through the writings of their rabbis, their gurus, a kind of literature that was very ideological in its nature and interpreted the reality of the 1970s and the 1980s and later of the 21st century as a monumental historical moment in the life of the Jewish people, where the old ancient biblical Israel is going to return and the days of the golden period, the glorious period of the past would be re-enacted.

And for that matter, the ideologue said, two things have to happen. One, you need to have sovereignty all over ancient Israel, that is, all over historical Palestine, Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip. And you need to maintain a theocratic regime.

And therefore, the problem was not just the presence of so many Palestinians in that coveted new kingdom, but also the presence of secular Jews who have served a certain purpose in history in their eyes, but have already exhausted their historical role and therefore, they were also an impediment for the recreation of the glorious biblical kingdom that they read about in the Old Testament.

Now, from a marginal group in the 70s and the 80s, they became a powerful political force because they succeeded in paving the way into the more impoverished parts of the Israeli Jewish society, especially among the second and third generation of North African Jews who lived in the slums of the big cities, in the infamous development towns of Israel, which lacked proper economic, educational and professional infrastructures.

And they were quite easily recruited to this ideology and their way of living anyway was already quite traditional and far more religious than that of the secular Jews. So they became a formidable power and we already saw it in the elections during the time of the Corona[virus] pandemic. But their moment of peak came in November 2022 when Netanyahu, with all his problems, decided to align himself with that coalition of the State of Judea and was willing to give them anything they wanted in order to remain in power.

And that meant giving them the Ministry of Homeland, what would be in America, the Homeland Security, a powerful position within the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Finance, but even more important, I think, allowing them to occupy senior and important positions in the police, in the army, and in the Secret Service.

So now they have a very strong grip over the Israeli state altogether, and by that I mean that the state that they are looking at, which I call the State of Judea, is swallowing, gradually, the State of Israel.

Chris Hedges

These are the Mizrahi, they’re called in Israel, and they always had, there was always tension with the Ashkenazi, the European-born Jews who dominated Israel, let’s say up until the 80s. Although, of course, Netanyahu’s family comes out of Poland. And what you saw was a kind of, Avi Shlam writes about it quite well in his memoirs, what is it, Three Worlds I think it’s called, that tension, that inherent kind of racism.

I mean, you mentioned this in your book, and it’s fascinating that those groups, many of whom came, they were Arab Jews, or as you said, they came from Morocco or Ethiopia, wherever, who were, they were poorly treated by the Ashkenazi. And it’s fascinating that they become the new power base because, of course, they were the — I don’t want to call them second-class citizens — but they certainly, among many Ashkenazi leaders, were kind of embarrassment.

Ilan Pappé

Absolutely. This is a tragic history and you’re right, my friend Avi writes about it very well in his book Three Worlds. They were brought, I mean not they, their grandparents, so to speak, were brought to Israel in the early 1950s because the Zionist movement or the new state of Israel failed to convince millions of Jews who lived in the United States and in the United Kingdom and parts of Europe to immigrate to Israel.

And quite reluctantly, the Zionist leadership decided to bring people that they regarded as Arab Jews, namely, they were not only Jews, they were also Arabs. But with the help of their own academic advisors, they embarked on what one of them called a process of de-Arabizing the Arab Jews, namely making them European Jews.

And one of the best ways for an Arab Jew to be accepted as an equal to a European Jew is to display hatred and racism towards the Arab and in fact towards his or her own identity. And that creates quite a very troubled mental infrastructure, as well as difficult social and economic condition that they found themselves in because they were pushed into the geographical and social margins of the society.

Now, something else happened because the governments did not deal with social welfare and economic problems. The religious groups entered instead of the government and had a lot of influence of the younger generation. So it’s not only Mizrahi versus Ashkenazi, it’s also a whole generation of young Israelis that went through what one can call national religious, rather than a secular democratic, through national religious educational system that produces graduates who are racist, theocratic in their way of looking at democracy, human rights and civil rights and quite committed to the Zionist dream.

Some of those youngsters we have seen in the selfies that they themselves filmed during the genocide of Gaza and it’s very easy to recognize the language that they use, the hatred, the racism and unfortunately this is not a marginal phenomenon. This is a very widespread phenomenon and is part of the power base of what I call the state of Judea.

Chris Hedges

Like the Christian right in the United States, they view politics through the lens of the Bible and talk about what that means, especially this campaign to raze the Al-Aqsa Mosque, I think [Israeli Minister of National Security Itamar] Ben-Gvir is one of the leaders of this, and rebuild the second temple.

It’s all, of course, mythology. I don’t know. Do we really know exactly where Judea and Samaria were? I don’t know. But, like the Christian right, suddenly the politics is filtered through this biblical mythology.

Ilan Pappé

Absolutely, it has, like in the case of the Christian Zionists, it has a pseudo-scientific side to it. Near the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, that is near Haram al-Sharif where the Al-Aqsa Mosque exists, there is something called the Institute for Building the Third Temple, supposedly an academic institute that researches the history of the temples in ancient times and builds models for the third temple in the future. This is a part of…

Chris Hedges

Let me just stop you. This was, the Romans razed the Jewish temple. Was it 70 AD? Is that date correct?

Ilan Pappé

70 AD, yeah.

Chris Hedges

And then of course, expelled Jews from Jerusalem. This was after the, was it the Bar Kokhba revolt? And then it’s always been, among the religious Zionists, and now we have the Al-Aqsa Mosque. I think that’s where the prophet Muhammad supposedly ascended to heaven. It’s one of the major holy sites in Islam that people rated as the third most important but extremely important and the idea is really to tear it down which would, of course, ignite much of the Muslim world.

Ilan Pappé

Yes, so one feature of this messianic vision is indeed to replace the two mosques on the mount with the third temple. But there is another aspect to this missionary, this vision which is to create or recreate the kingdom of David and Solomon. Not that there is a clear map in the Bible, there are no maps, but they have a certain cartography in mind which stretches far beyond historical Palestine, that is Israel and the occupied territories, into Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.

Now, right now, that looks totally insane and not a very practical or even possible or probable scenario. But what I would say is that although I don’t think they will ever be able to achieve that geographical kind of extension or expansion rather, I’m not sure they would not attempt it. That by itself, is a kind of irrational strategic and future behavior that I think will also contribute to the disintegration of Israel in the more distant future.

Chris Hedges

Can we argue that that’s what they’re doing now? They are essentially expanding greater Israel into Gaza. They’ve already expanded, let’s call it Greater Israel, into southern Lebanon. They’ve moved almost up to Damascus in Syria. Is that what is driving this expansion? Then, of course, these strikes being carried out in Iran, in Qatar.

Ilan Pappé

Absolutely, this is the model that they are building. The model is of the center of gravity. The power base of the Middle East is in Jewish Zionist Jerusalem. And the whole region is run from there with vassals, with allies, and with enemies that are constantly being punished. And in the meantime, the space of the state extends over the borders of what used to be mandatory or historical Palestine. Absolutely right.

There’s already military presence in South Lebanon, in the south of Syria, and I don’t think they’re going to stop there. And what I think very difficult for your viewers, Chris, to realize is that there is a difference between their internal discourse in Hebrew and what seeps out or makes itself out in English or is being translated into English because if you visit their centers of learning, if you read their own websites, if you kind of make a more profound effort to look at what they write and take it seriously and talk about, then you can see that the ambition is far more, is more than just having the military presence in South Lebanon or South Syria.

That the ambition is to really rebuild that ancient biblical Israel and regarding many of the areas west of the River Jordan, such as Jordan, as part of that biblical kingdom that by right or by God’s will belongs actually to the Hebrew people, namely the current Jewish people.

Chris Hedges

So let’s talk about how that contributes to disintegration. You write,

“So a potential fall of Israel could either be like the end of South Vietnam, the total erasure of a state, or like South Africa, the fall of a particular ideological regime and its replacement by another. I believe that in the case of Israel, elements of both scenarios will unfold sooner than many of us can comprehend or prepare for.”

So you have the internal divisions. We’ve seen it with the protests against Netanyahu. There doesn’t seem to be much internal dispute over the genocide, but certainly over this clash between these religious Zionists, the state of Judea and the old state of Israel, if you want to define it as that kind of clash.

So you have the internal divisions. You have the expansion of Greater Israel. How do those forces contribute to the disintegration of the state of Judea, the state of Israel?

Ilan Pappé

All these actions and strategies when they are being implemented on the ground have a dialectical kind of connection with other processes. Namely, they are influencing almost like on a billiard pool table other processes.

For instance, the more aggressive is the Israeli territorial expansion. The more cruel is the Israeli punitive action and adventurous, namely, taking part all over the Arab world, the more the Arab world itself would undergo a process of change from within that hasn’t happened yet until now.

The so-called Arab Spring did not produce dramatic regime changes in the Arab world, but such a situation, such an escalation of Israeli territorial expansion and punitive actions, can lead to a continued revolution. The one that started in 2012 and one of the manifestations, I think, of any new political order in the Arab world will be regimes, rulers, governments, whatever they will be, political elites, that will reflect more faithfully what their societies want their states to do with regard to Palestine.

And then Israel would not face two small guerrilla armies that it can relatively easily defeat, although even that they haven’t been able to do. But they would face conventional armies. The second is economic. Expansion like this, lunatic behavior, if you want, like this typical to populist governments, wherever they are, comes at a price.

The United States is the one that would ask to finance most of it because up to 2023, the United States provided Israel with $3 billion annual support. Since 2023, they’ve already paid into the Israeli bank account, so to speak, about $15 to $16 billion and the demand on the American taxpayer to finance these ambitions would increase and that would, I’m not sure, even if a Republican administration would go along with this.

So they are facing also a serious economic crisis despite the fact that, of course, still people buy from the Israelis military security and securitization products and services. Nonetheless, that would not be enough to sustain a proper economy. To that you can add the isolation in the world which, the more extreme the behavior is, it might not be contained in the boycott and divestment campaigns and might move into the realm of sanctions.

We’re already beginning to see indications of this, that some governments are willing, at least to talk about sanctions, we’ll wait and see whether they’re willing to impose them. To that, you can add also the change in the young generation of Jews, especially in the United States, who with such an Israeli, such a state of Judea would probably associate themselves from Zionism and Israel and who knows, many of them might be even activists in the solidarity movement with the Palestinians.

And finally, I do think that we have to pay attention to the younger Palestinian generation. There’s not much to write home about the present political leadership of the Palestinians in terms of their unity, vision, vision and effectiveness. But if you listen and view and talk to the younger Palestinians, there is a human capital there that would be able, I do believe, to restructure the Palestinian liberation movement, to orient it towards a far more effective pathway in the future and actually having them in the driver’s seat, not only in the struggle to dismantle Zionism, but far more importantly in leading the way in the conversation what should replace a decolonized Israel, or if I’m right, disintegrated Israel in which the Zionist project will collapse in front of our eyes.…

https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/is-israel-on-the-brink-w-ilan-pappe

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